Time to move on to a bigger pond

[nashvillegoldenflash]

Now that WKU has shown that it is the biggest fish in its pond, I believe it's time to seriously think about moving on to a bigger pond. However, there are a lot of people who believe it is better to be a big fish in a small pond than a smaller fish in a bigger pond. Authors Rene Gaudette and Maggie McGuffin-Gaudette explain this notion in their book, The Wonders, They write,

The ego perceives that, by expanding itself, it reduces itself because it expands itself into a greater whole, and therefore, it is a smaller fish in a bigger pond. "Better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond." As a result, the ego then fights the concept of moving to the big pond. But we're suggesting, if you allow the ego to perceive that it is a big fish in a small pond and a big fish in a big pond, or a bigger fish in a big pond, then it does not fear the shift. For it will perceive itself in terms of equality, as equal in one situation as in the other, in one circumstance as in another. Therefore, show the ego that by expanding itself it will remain the same.

If Conference USA is the smallest pond in FBS football, then it's fair to say the MAC is a bigger pond than Conference USA. With a bigger pond comes bigger perks. For example, the MAC will receive a $6 million payday when Western Michigan plays on New Year's Day in the Cotton Bowl. Other perks include hosting ESPN Gameday, establishing record breaking championship attendance (45,615) this year, and creating a national audience via ESPN. Last year, the MAC extended its contract with ESPN until the 2026 season, adding 10 years to the original deal and bumping estimated payouts per school to about $840,000, eight times more than the previous contract.

Since Todd Stewart is an alumnus of Miami University,* an esteemed member of the Mid American Conference, I'm confident he would welcome an invitation to the MAC but the question is whether he is doing everything he can to capitalize on conference realignment when the opportunity presents itself. No one knows when MAC realignment will occur but I'm convinced when it happens, WKU needs to be included if it wants to expand its national reputation.

* The 2017 U.S. News & World Report ranks Miami University the top public university in the nation in the category of “Strong Commitment to Undergraduate Teaching." Nationally, Miami follows only Princeton (a private university) in this rankings list.

 

[Cats192]

I think we're fools not to move up if/when given the chance. Conference USA is huge because it presents many more bowl opportunities.

Bigger conferences will mean more money, more tv time, bigger recruits, better bowl opportunities, etc.

Not sure when it potentially opens up. But would be a huge opportunity.

 

[SBeardenRivals]

WKU has already turned the MAC down once in the last decade. Part of the reason for this is WKU identifies as more of a southern school and also identifies with more of the CUSA member institutions then that of the MAC. The majority of WKU recruits come from the south and WKU's largest alumni bases are also settled in the south. I do not see any scenerio in which WKU would accept an invitation to the MAC. AAC I could see if that came. But if we are all being honest with one another. There is no real perception difference on a national scale between CUSA and the MAC. The MAC had a great year this year thanks in large part to WMU going undefeated. However, because of the overall weakness of the conference their NY6 bowl bid was still in doubt until Navy lost.

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

Shane, I understand that WKU has a close affinity with the South and identifies itself more with Marshall than Miami. However, I don't understand how you can state there is no difference in perception between CUSA and the MAC when the former has finished below the MAC four out of the last five years in conference power rankings. When CUSA is looking up at the Sun Belt Conference for the second year in a row, I believe you have a perception problem. With respect to the MAC, last year the conference was actually better than this year finishing just below the AAC and ahead of the Mountain West Conference. But no doubt, this year's Cotton Bowl is really going to advance the perception of the MAC. Go Broncos!!! Row The Boat!!!

http://realtimerpi.com/college_football/ncaaf_conf_Men.html

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

Here is just another example of the bad perception Conference USA has (and I'm not even talking about Conference USA basketball because everyone knows its power ranking is either just below or just above the Ohio Valley Conference depending on the year.

Below you will hear Colin Cowherd rip Iowa for playing Middle Tennessee in 2019. Cowherd goes on a rant criticizing Iowa for only playing "cream puffs" during its out of conference schedule. I could be wrong, but I don't believe any MAC school would receive this much disrespect because the truth is over the last 11 years the MAC has had at least one win against the Big Ten. Most years include at least two wins and in 2008 the MAC defeated the Big Ten four times. Last year Western Michigan won twice against the Big Ten and in the last 11 years Bowling Green, Northern Illinois, Central Michigan, Ball State, Ohio, and Toledo have all had success against the Big Ten.

When you consider Middle Tennessee is one of Conference USA's better programs and still gets this much disrespect, what does that say about the conference?

If you still don't believe Conference USA has a perception problem, think again.



http://www.elevenwarriors.com/colle...ig-tens-eleven-years-of-losses-to-mac-schools

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

In football, top-to-bottom, the MAC is bigger/better than CUSA, even though the CUSA champ can compete with the top MAC schools.

In hoops, CUSA is much better than the MAC.

It would be interesting to see how a "southern recruiting base" school like Western would fare in the MAC for hoops and football.

The most recently-reported MAC TV deal was MUCH better than the most recently-reported CUSA deal - like 4 times.

Personally, I think that a team that spends the next 10 years in the MAC has a better chance of surviving the coming catastrophe that will follow the Power 5 in effect leaving the NCAA and starting their own top 65-70 organization, than a team that spends the next 10 in CUSA.

The MAC has stability.
CUSA is still a moving target and has some real poor quality at the bottom.

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

The last time Conference USA finished ahead of the MAC in basketball was in 2012-2013 when the University of Memphis was still in the conference. Certainly, I realize the MAC can be very weak in basketball at times, but in 2015-2016 it finished #10 in the power rankings. This season, the MAC finished #14 in the power rankings, whereas Conference USA finished #22 and #23 during those respective years. Conference USA finished ahead of the Ohio Valley Conference this season because Belmont underachieved, but last season Conference USA finished below the OVC. The truth of the matter, Conference USA is much closer to the Ohio Valley Conference in basketball power rankings than the Mid American Conference. I'm not sure how the MAC will do next season. Unfortunately, Ohio University lost its point guard after Jaaron Simmons announced that he was transferring to the University of Michigan. Simmons will be instantly eligible as a grad transfer. He was a first-team All-Mid-American Conference player, averaging 15.9 points and 6.5 assists per game. Ohio is typically one of the better programs in the MAC, but when you lose a top player unexpectedly, it has to hurt. Nevertheless, I just don't see a time when Conference USA finishes ahead of the MAC.

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

Just more evidence that shows it's time for Western to move on to a bigger pond.

 

[SBeardenRivals]

Still don't see MAC as a bigger pond. Most at WKU agree with that as well. There is very little difference between all of the G5 conferences. If WKU were to move on it would likely only be for the American Conference.

More likely scenario is CUSA could break up in a few years and WKU could partner with the better schools in the conference to form a new league. But even chances of that are slim to none.

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

"There is very little difference between all of the G5 conferences."

Really? There is very little difference between the AAC and Conference USA? There is very little difference between Central Florida, Cincinnati, Connecticut, East Carolina, Houston, Memphis, South Florida, Southern Methodist, Temple, Tulane, Tulsa and the members of Conference USA? That statement is not nearly as bad as Middle fans claiming that there is very little difference between Floyd Stadium and Vaught–Hemingway Stadium at Ole Miss but it is still delusionary in my view.

With respect to the notion of Conference USA breaking up, I believe a merger with the Sun Belt is much more likely to happen. At least that way Conference USA will no longer finish below the Sun Belt in power rankings if the two conferences merge together to form one conference.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...rence-usa-sun-belt-conference-merger-football

 

[SBeardenRivals]

That is why I said it would likely only be for the AAC. I should have clarified my statement better. Very little difference between the G5 conferences....with the exception of the American.

As far as the merger with the Sun Belt. I can tell you from a WKU administration perspective as well as MTSU, Marshall, and a few other schools. WKU has no interest in realigning themselves with teams they just got away from a few years ago. More likely scenario is a group of WKU, Marshall, MTSU, La Tech, UAB, Southern Miss, ODU, and Charlotte splitting off and asking 1 or 2 other teams to join them. You have to have 7 members who have played together a minimum of 8 seasons I believe in order to form a new conference and keep your auto-bids in tact.

UTEP and Rice could go to Mountain West in this situation and the remaining CUSA members could merge with the Sun Belt minus 2-4 select members that the group with WKU could invite to join them. Basically one of CUSA or the Sun Belt would then become extinct.

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

So now we are getting somewhere. At least you are willing to admit that the AAC is better than Conference USA. You however are unwilling to admit that the MAC is better than Conference USA despite the power rankings that show the MAC is stronger in both football and basketball. So I will attempt to use TV revenue and viewership as another criteria to show a significant difference between the two conferences.

The 12 schools of the MAC are splitting $10MM/year until the end of the contract in 2027, netting $833,000 per school. That is significantly more than Conference USA ($200K per school), the Sun Belt ($100K), and even the Mountain West ($636K). The AAC gets more money ($1.5 million per school) than the MAC but the MAC deal is longer than any other G5 contract.

With respect to viewership, let me point out the MAC was the first conference to my knowledge to have weekday games on ESPN. While the whole thing seems like a meme today, MACtion really did change the way that we watch college football today. Midweek games were new and virtually unprecedented, and the MAC made it work with entertaining, well-played football that captivated a much larger audience than just MAC fans and alumni. Now you see PAC 12 games on Friday nights, the ACC will play a Thursday or Friday night game virtually every week, and even the SEC and Big Ten started off the season last year with weeknight games. The fact that the MAC often has teams capable of beating P-5 opponents gives the midweek games legitimacy that they might otherwise lack.

 

[CyrusJS]

So now we are getting somewhere. At least you are willing to admit that the AAC is better than Conference USA. You however are unwilling to admit that the MAC is better than Conference USA despite the power rankings that show the MAC is stronger in both football and basketball. So I will attempt to use TV revenue and viewership as another criteria to show a significant difference between the two conferences.

The 12 schools of the MAC are splitting $10MM/year until the end of the contract in 2027, netting $833,000 per school. That is significantly more than Conference USA ($200K per school), the Sun Belt ($100K), and even the Mountain West ($636K). The AAC gets more money ($1.5 million per school), than the MAC but the MAC deal is longer than any other G5 contract.

With respect to viewership, let me point out the MAC was the first conference to my knowledge to have weekday games on ESPN. While the whole thing seems like a meme today, MACtion really did change the way that we watch college football today. Midweek games were new and virtually unprecedented, and the MAC made it work with entertaining, well-played football that captivated a much larger audience than just MAC fans and alumni. Nowadays you see PAC 12 games on Friday nights, the ACC will play a Thursday or Friday night game virtually every week, and even the Big Ten and SEC started off the season last year with weeknight games. The fact that the MAC often has teams capable of beating P5 opponents gives the midweek games legitimacy that they might otherwise lack.

With all due respect, I doubt WKU would be interested in moving to a conference that plays midweek games when we already struggle to fill our stands. The $600k increase in TV revenue each year would be easily lost in ticket sales.

I also doubt that WKU wants to be playing in empty stadiums in the freezing cold in November. Rather play in empty stadiums in sunny Florida/Texas in November.

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

“Conference USA’s current financial model is unsustainable,” said an athletic director who asked not to be named.

As the athletic director said, Conference USA's financial model is unsustainable. Unless Conference USA merges with the Sun Belt Conference in the foreseeable future, many athletic departments in Conference USA will go bankrupt. The only other alternative is to play three Power 5 schools each season. For example, Middle is playing Vanderbilt, Syracuse, and Minnesota in 2017, Vanderbilt, Georgia, and Kentucky in 2018, and Michigan, Duke, and Iowa in 2019. Without the big paychecks from Power 5 schools, most Conference USA members would not make it.

That is why it's just a matter of time that Conference USA and the Sun Belt Conference becomes:
http://pilotonline.com/sports/colum...cle_19e86f15-f21e-53f4-8868-505de84abcf2.html

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

"WKU has already turned the MAC down once in the last decade."

Shane, do you have any evidence of this? Contrary to what you want to believe, it's my understanding the MAC presidents rejected Western. Even a WKU poster acknowledged this in a post back in 2008. By his own admission, "WKU was at the alter and ready to take the plunge with the MAC a few years ago. The MAC presidents rejected WKU even though it would have evened out the divisions in the MAC."

When this discussion was prominent on the sports boards years ago, I read many posts on it but never saw an official statement from WKU or the MAC regarding the subject. I understand if the above statement is true then WKU would be reluctant to publicize its rejection by the MAC so I assume this information was obtained from someone close to the athletic department.

The way I understand it, the MAC presidents rejected WKU based on academics. College presidents typically want to align themselves with colleges that share similar academic goals. If you don't agree with this statement, read what another poster stated about this subject below.

"To answer those who joke about conferences having nothing to do with academics, on the surface, sure, it seems crazy, but Presidents are the decision makers. Presidents want to align with other Presidents with similar goals. Athletics is nothing but a marketing division of a major university, so think of athletic conferences as university marketing partnerships. Some Presidents would prefer not to align their marketing efforts with schools that don't align with their academic profile/mission.

L'ville, I believe, was a decision made in fear of the ACC falling apart. ACC Presidents were willing to "sacrifice" the overall profile of the league in an effort to keep the existing partnerships intact.

All that said, if a university's athletic department was put in a position of being irrelevant, the President would have to decide what to do, and would likely seek a path of relevance since athletics is the face of the university. That is why people say most presidents in the ACC want it to remain intact, but if it begins to fall apart, it would ultimately be every man for themselves.

Going full circle in this thread back to the AAU question. It's simple, AAU schools like to be affiliated with one another (including through marketing/sports), and schools aspiring to be AAU would be doing themselves a favor by aligning themselves as closely as possible with other AAU schools. Sports may not be the only way, but it's a really good one since athletic conference presidents are very active with one another."

Although the MAC is not the ACC with AAU members, the conference still wants to preserve its academic integrity. As a WKU alum, I don't have a problem with Western as a member of the MAC but I do have serious problems with Marshall. Even posters on HerdNation.com are fully aware of Marshall's reputation of recruiting non-qualifiers and often complain when they are booted off the team for criminal behavior.

At any rate since Todd Stewart is a Miami grad, I have to believe he is fully aware of the MAC's academic standards and would be able to present WKU's athletic and academic qualities in the most favorable light. Since Stewart was not the AD when Western was under consideration for the MAC, perhaps he could do a better job presenting WKU to the MAC for membership.

I realize Shane you have an affinity to Conference USA, but just think how bad it would be if Conference USA and the Sunbelt are forced to combine to form one conference given the fact that Western paid Conference USA $2 million to join the league only to essentially be back in the conference with Sun Belt members.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-337272.html

http://virginiatech.sportswar.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-112793.html

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

And besides, does WKU really want to be a rival with Marshall?

"Typical Doc recruit. When you recruit from the scrap heap this is what you get."

http://wvmetronews.com/2017/07/01/p...ion-about-shooting-involving-marshall-player/

From a disgruntled Marshall fan regarding a former Herd football player:

The Department of Justice website states that "Tiquan Lang entered his guilty plea to conspiracy to distribute heroin." It further states "Lang admitted he participated in the conspiracy in early 2015. On multiple occasions, Lang received and distributed heroin when directed . . . during the search [of Lang's apartment], agents seized two firearms, and Lang admitted his participation in the conspiracy to law enforcement."

He faces up to 20 years and is scheduled to be sentenced on August 14, 2017.

So, to summarize . . . Lang's apartment was raided by the FBI on February 4th, 2015. At that time, two guns were seized and Lang admitted to the FBI his role in the conspiracy to sell heroin. Seven months later, Lang makes 17 tackles, has two INTs, and scores two TDs for Marshall in their win over Purdue. Seven months after that, Lang is arrested for a weapons charge and DUI. Four months after that, Lang is finally dismissed from the team.

Now, I don't have a J.D., but it seems a little odd for a person to plead guilty in a federal court to an offense they weren't charged with.

So, again I ask, is Doc more stringent this season in lowering the amount of heroin the players are allowed to sell to still be allowed to play against Big 10 opponents? Is he more stringent in enforcing the unbreakable, no tolerance rules about guns as long as they 1) are used for selling heroin 2) you get caught with them three times or more?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdwv/pr/two-men-plead-guilty-federal-heroin-conspiracy

 

[CyrusJS]

At the time, WKU going to C-USA made so much sense. We were joining a conference that still had Tulane, ECU, USF, Tulsa. The TV contract was much, much higher at the time too. It still is, but not as much.

If WKU knew what they knew now, maybe they wouldn't have made the move. Maybe they would have. Hard to say. Conferences go through a lot of change over the year. At one point, the Sun Belt was one of the premier hoops conferences in the country, just like CUSA was one of the premier FBS conferences in the country, with teams like UofL, TCU, Cinci, Memphis, Houston, etc.

I personally wouldn't be opposed to a SBC/CUSA merger, but it would have to be one that really helps WKU. Just dividing geographically isn't something I'm for. It would have to be one that helps football and basketball perception, as well as increased TV contract. CUSA is too heavy with bad teams at the bottom. Cutting them out would make CUSA a very strong league.

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

I appreciate your response.